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	<title>Comments on: Vancouver&#8217;s Challenging Business Environment</title>
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	<description>A Digital Media CEO focused on Monetization, Social Entertainment, and Fun</description>
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		<title>By: Allan</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-233</guid>
		<description>Doing &quot;bizziness&quot; in Vancouver, is like 3:00 p.m patio talk. Everybody talks the talk ,but nobody walks the walk. There is no real desire to make something happen because first of all nobody has any money. It&#039;s a myth. 

Driving a Mercedes, dressed in a Harry Rosen suit creates a great first impression and having lunch at Lumierre, but truth is you don&#039;t know that the guys credit card is maxed and he can barely afford to put the gas in his Mercedes.  
  
There are about 10 wealthy families  who are the aristocracy in Vancouver.  They or their offspring still live in Shaugnessy.  The rest are the drug lords who also live side by side in Shaugnessy. 

That&#039;s old money.  New money in Vancouver  lies in the hands of the wealthy Asian fathers who may purchase a 1.5 million dollar home on the west side, leave their wife, grandmother  and kids in their house on  in the catchment area to qualify for registering their kids at Prince of Wales Secondary, the best academic high school in Vancouver. Then they return to Hong Kong to create more wealth. This is not a racist issue, it;s a FACT. You could be Ukrainian and do the same thing. 

And you wonder where the wealth lies. Surrey last year hosted wealthy Asian businessmen to lure them to invest in Surrey.  These are not VC or Angel Investors ready to invest in your startup or entrepreneurial venture. Banks aren&#039;t interested either unless you have assets or a spouse  with a good paying job.  

&quot;Love Money&quot;- family and  friends is and always has been the best source for seed money in Vancouver. The Business Development Bank has pretty much the same reputation for lending as banks, and they are not risk aversive.

So who has money here?  Do you? Probably not if you are considering leaving the most expensive place to buy and live in North America. 

Vancouver is like the beautiful rich girl in high school, who you couldn&#039;t take your eyes off of, you were addicted to her and almost stalking her, but you knew only the rich quarterback driving the chevy convertible would stand a chance to date her. 

Doing &quot;bizziness&quot; in Vancouver is a way of life here.  People are dancing as fast as they can here, and everybody is still pursuing the beautiful    girl,  in the hopes that one day she will embrace you and accept you for just who you are; the poor handyman&#039;s son who drives a 54 Monarch. 

It&#039;s not a question of when you will leave, but how long you want to keep chasing the brass ring, knowing full well that the definition of insanity is doing the same things over  and over again and expecting  different results.  

But it&#039;s like a group of alcoholics who sit around and say that they want to stop drinking and they all turn to one another and say : &quot;Okay You First&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing &#8220;bizziness&#8221; in Vancouver, is like 3:00 p.m patio talk. Everybody talks the talk ,but nobody walks the walk. There is no real desire to make something happen because first of all nobody has any money. It&#8217;s a myth. </p>
<p>Driving a Mercedes, dressed in a Harry Rosen suit creates a great first impression and having lunch at Lumierre, but truth is you don&#8217;t know that the guys credit card is maxed and he can barely afford to put the gas in his Mercedes.  </p>
<p>There are about 10 wealthy families  who are the aristocracy in Vancouver.  They or their offspring still live in Shaugnessy.  The rest are the drug lords who also live side by side in Shaugnessy. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s old money.  New money in Vancouver  lies in the hands of the wealthy Asian fathers who may purchase a 1.5 million dollar home on the west side, leave their wife, grandmother  and kids in their house on  in the catchment area to qualify for registering their kids at Prince of Wales Secondary, the best academic high school in Vancouver. Then they return to Hong Kong to create more wealth. This is not a racist issue, it;s a FACT. You could be Ukrainian and do the same thing. </p>
<p>And you wonder where the wealth lies. Surrey last year hosted wealthy Asian businessmen to lure them to invest in Surrey.  These are not VC or Angel Investors ready to invest in your startup or entrepreneurial venture. Banks aren&#8217;t interested either unless you have assets or a spouse  with a good paying job.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Love Money&#8221;- family and  friends is and always has been the best source for seed money in Vancouver. The Business Development Bank has pretty much the same reputation for lending as banks, and they are not risk aversive.</p>
<p>So who has money here?  Do you? Probably not if you are considering leaving the most expensive place to buy and live in North America. </p>
<p>Vancouver is like the beautiful rich girl in high school, who you couldn&#8217;t take your eyes off of, you were addicted to her and almost stalking her, but you knew only the rich quarterback driving the chevy convertible would stand a chance to date her. </p>
<p>Doing &#8220;bizziness&#8221; in Vancouver is a way of life here.  People are dancing as fast as they can here, and everybody is still pursuing the beautiful    girl,  in the hopes that one day she will embrace you and accept you for just who you are; the poor handyman&#8217;s son who drives a 54 Monarch. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a question of when you will leave, but how long you want to keep chasing the brass ring, knowing full well that the definition of insanity is doing the same things over  and over again and expecting  different results.  </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s like a group of alcoholics who sit around and say that they want to stop drinking and they all turn to one another and say : &#8220;Okay You First&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-207</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to say that the blog and discussion afterwards was great information.

I&#039;m in Vancouver for the week looking into possibly moving here from Alberta (looking for that next step up the corporate ladder and a change if scenery). But after meeting with recruiters yesterday, it&#039;s become abundantly clear that to move to Vancouver I&#039;d be looking at what would amount to being a $10 an hour pay cut.

In talking with the recruiters, the reason for the lower wage is all outlined above. They said employers don&#039;t need to pay high wages, as people accept less money just to live in Vancouver.

I looked into the cost of living in Vancouver, so I know what I need to earn to live decently in this city. And I thought the minimum number I came up with should have been attainable, as it&#039;s not outrageous... Or so I though.

I have great experience and education credentials to offer this city. However, it seems like I&#039;m going to have to look elsewhere to achieve my goals. But I&#039;ll see what happens over this week first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to say that the blog and discussion afterwards was great information.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in Vancouver for the week looking into possibly moving here from Alberta (looking for that next step up the corporate ladder and a change if scenery). But after meeting with recruiters yesterday, it&#8217;s become abundantly clear that to move to Vancouver I&#8217;d be looking at what would amount to being a $10 an hour pay cut.</p>
<p>In talking with the recruiters, the reason for the lower wage is all outlined above. They said employers don&#8217;t need to pay high wages, as people accept less money just to live in Vancouver.</p>
<p>I looked into the cost of living in Vancouver, so I know what I need to earn to live decently in this city. And I thought the minimum number I came up with should have been attainable, as it&#8217;s not outrageous&#8230; Or so I though.</p>
<p>I have great experience and education credentials to offer this city. However, it seems like I&#8217;m going to have to look elsewhere to achieve my goals. But I&#8217;ll see what happens over this week first.</p>
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		<title>By: Brain</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-189</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed this discussion immensely - quite frankly, there were quite a few international companies that I was working with at a sr executive level that left Vancouver for similar reasons discussed here. Yet another one, that hasn&#039;t been mentioned yet, is lack of discipline, punctuality and work ethic in the workplace. I.e. one of the CEOs of local operations for a major Japanese multinational in Vancouver told me (when he was leaving and the company with him) he couldn&#039;t stand the fact that people are never reachable on their phones and don&#039;t return the phone calls - if they do, it often takes them a few days with some made-up sounding excuses. Very unprofessional and flaky. I&#039;d second that opinion and I&#039;m sure many (most) of you have experienced the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed this discussion immensely &#8211; quite frankly, there were quite a few international companies that I was working with at a sr executive level that left Vancouver for similar reasons discussed here. Yet another one, that hasn&#8217;t been mentioned yet, is lack of discipline, punctuality and work ethic in the workplace. I.e. one of the CEOs of local operations for a major Japanese multinational in Vancouver told me (when he was leaving and the company with him) he couldn&#8217;t stand the fact that people are never reachable on their phones and don&#8217;t return the phone calls &#8211; if they do, it often takes them a few days with some made-up sounding excuses. Very unprofessional and flaky. I&#8217;d second that opinion and I&#8217;m sure many (most) of you have experienced the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Rochelle Grayson &#8211; Annoucing My New Job: CEO of BookRiff</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Rochelle Grayson &#8211; Annoucing My New Job: CEO of BookRiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-172</guid>
		<description>[...] My New Job: CEO of BookRiff It&#8217;s official! After my last post about the challenging business environment in Vancouver, I am thrilled to announce that I have taken on the role of CEO for a top-notch startup called [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My New Job: CEO of BookRiff It&#8217;s official! After my last post about the challenging business environment in Vancouver, I am thrilled to announce that I have taken on the role of CEO for a top-notch startup called [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Getting paid for your profession. It&#8217;s not easy, but it doesn&#8217;t mean you are worth $10 and a coca cola sticker. - SkriptFounders</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Getting paid for your profession. It&#8217;s not easy, but it doesn&#8217;t mean you are worth $10 and a coca cola sticker. - SkriptFounders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 21:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-171</guid>
		<description>[...] thing to do when you are starting a new business is convincing people that you should actually get paid for your profession.  It only seems logical that if we wanted to do business with someone that the traditional methods [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thing to do when you are starting a new business is convincing people that you should actually get paid for your profession.  It only seems logical that if we wanted to do business with someone that the traditional methods [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Lee</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 05:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-170</guid>
		<description>Ooh, ooh two other things.

Raul, I regularly put in 60 to 80 hour weeks on a regular basis. I work my azz off right now, but I do so with a plan that what I&#039;m developing now will pay off later. The real question on my mind is...when is &quot;later&quot;?

So yes, other people are putting in long hours, I hope its for an adequate payoff.

And about housing. Housing is just insane and ludicrous in this city. I&#039;m working hard so I can afford an overpriced house in the future.
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/52803--b-c-has-one-of-the-hottest-housing-markets-in-canada</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, ooh two other things.</p>
<p>Raul, I regularly put in 60 to 80 hour weeks on a regular basis. I work my azz off right now, but I do so with a plan that what I&#8217;m developing now will pay off later. The real question on my mind is&#8230;when is &#8220;later&#8221;?</p>
<p>So yes, other people are putting in long hours, I hope its for an adequate payoff.</p>
<p>And about housing. Housing is just insane and ludicrous in this city. I&#8217;m working hard so I can afford an overpriced house in the future.<br />
<a href="http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/52803--b-c-has-one-of-the-hottest-housing-markets-in-canada" rel="nofollow">http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/52803&#8211;b-c-has-one-of-the-hottest-housing-markets-in-canada</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Lee</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 05:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Hi Rochelle,

First, thanks for speaking to the Vancouver Business, Marketing and Entrepreneur group last night . You gave an awesome talk. http://www.meetup.com/Vancouver-Business-Marketing-Entrepreneur/

Now about your post, I unfortunately have to agree with what you say as I see it time and time again and hear it in the stories relayed to be by other entrepreneurs. Vancouver businesses simply do not want to pay when they can hold back.... meanwhile Calgary is paying top dollar, as well as a multitude of cities in the U.S.

That is a personality of the city, and it&#039;s not just regarding salaries, its widespread here, compared to other cities.

From my business and marketing coaching point of view, I consider myself to quote a little lower than I think it should be on contracts, yet entrepreneurs simply don&#039;t want to pay if they think they can do it themselves for free. Sometimes the &#039;cost&#039; of doing the latter greatly outweighs the former.

I even wrote a brief report on this, as Reason 9 of my Special Report on Why Vancouver Businesses Can&#039;t Market or Sell.

It&#039;s a short report, mean to be taken with the rest of the reasons as a whole (which anyone can get if they go to www.elevatedmarketing.ca and sign up for the report), but I&#039;ll share Reason 9 here to morally support you in your lament above: http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca/reason-nine-too-cheap/

Best,

Ronald Lee
www.elevatedmarketing.ca
604-781-7093 info@elevatedmarketing.ca
...follow us on twitter! http://twitter.com/ElevatedMarket</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rochelle,</p>
<p>First, thanks for speaking to the Vancouver Business, Marketing and Entrepreneur group last night . You gave an awesome talk. <a href="http://www.meetup.com/Vancouver-Business-Marketing-Entrepreneur/" rel="nofollow">http://www.meetup.com/Vancouver-Business-Marketing-Entrepreneur/</a></p>
<p>Now about your post, I unfortunately have to agree with what you say as I see it time and time again and hear it in the stories relayed to be by other entrepreneurs. Vancouver businesses simply do not want to pay when they can hold back&#8230;. meanwhile Calgary is paying top dollar, as well as a multitude of cities in the U.S.</p>
<p>That is a personality of the city, and it&#8217;s not just regarding salaries, its widespread here, compared to other cities.</p>
<p>From my business and marketing coaching point of view, I consider myself to quote a little lower than I think it should be on contracts, yet entrepreneurs simply don&#8217;t want to pay if they think they can do it themselves for free. Sometimes the &#8216;cost&#8217; of doing the latter greatly outweighs the former.</p>
<p>I even wrote a brief report on this, as Reason 9 of my Special Report on Why Vancouver Businesses Can&#8217;t Market or Sell.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a short report, mean to be taken with the rest of the reasons as a whole (which anyone can get if they go to <a href="http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca" rel="nofollow">http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca</a> and sign up for the report), but I&#8217;ll share Reason 9 here to morally support you in your lament above: <a href="http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca/reason-nine-too-cheap/" rel="nofollow">http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca/reason-nine-too-cheap/</a></p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Ronald Lee<br />
<a href="http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca" rel="nofollow">http://www.elevatedmarketing.ca</a><br />
604-781-7093 <a href="mailto:info@elevatedmarketing.ca">info@elevatedmarketing.ca</a><br />
&#8230;follow us on twitter! <a href="http://twitter.com/ElevatedMarket" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/ElevatedMarket</a></p>
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		<title>By: Business in Vancouver: Can the city attract top talent? &#124; Living Abroad in Canada</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Business in Vancouver: Can the city attract top talent? &#124; Living Abroad in Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 14:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-159</guid>
		<description>[...] Vancouver-based social media exec Rochelle Grayson — an expat who’s lived in Germany and the U.S. as well as in Canada — recently blogged about what she called “Vancouver’s Challenging Business Environment.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vancouver-based social media exec Rochelle Grayson — an expat who’s lived in Germany and the U.S. as well as in Canada — recently blogged about what she called “Vancouver’s Challenging Business Environment.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rochelle</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Rochelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Hi Kulpreet,

Thanks so much for your comments! 

There are many companies exploring moving out of Vancouver for cheaper real estate. In fact, it is quite difficult to find commercial real estate of any size for reasonable prices in the city. That said, companies do have difficulty attracting senior talent who love the urban residential environment of the Vancouver (of which I am one). I have spoken to several &quot;suburban&quot; municipalities about what it takes to attract these workers and often, a level of infrastructure beyond personal housing, such as coffee shops, cool gathering places, interesting office environments, etc., is needed for some to consider moving out of the city. 

The funny thing is that it is a lifestyle choice! And, for me, lifestyle includes &quot;work, play and live&quot;. I&#039;m just asking Vancouver to consider that work is still an important driver of my lifestyle and we need to make sure it&#039;s in balance with the costs of &quot;playing and living&quot; here. It&#039;s definitely not an easy task! 

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kulpreet,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your comments! </p>
<p>There are many companies exploring moving out of Vancouver for cheaper real estate. In fact, it is quite difficult to find commercial real estate of any size for reasonable prices in the city. That said, companies do have difficulty attracting senior talent who love the urban residential environment of the Vancouver (of which I am one). I have spoken to several &#8220;suburban&#8221; municipalities about what it takes to attract these workers and often, a level of infrastructure beyond personal housing, such as coffee shops, cool gathering places, interesting office environments, etc., is needed for some to consider moving out of the city. </p>
<p>The funny thing is that it is a lifestyle choice! And, for me, lifestyle includes &#8220;work, play and live&#8221;. I&#8217;m just asking Vancouver to consider that work is still an important driver of my lifestyle and we need to make sure it&#8217;s in balance with the costs of &#8220;playing and living&#8221; here. It&#8217;s definitely not an easy task! </p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Rochelle</title>
		<link>http://rochelle.ca/2010/04/10/vancouvers-challenging-business-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Rochelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochelle.ca/?p=97#comment-145</guid>
		<description>Hi Raul,

Thanks so much for your comment! I completely agree with all four points and it is a fine balance between work aspirations and lifestyle. Yes, I do work a lot, but as I&#039;ve told several people recently, &quot;What you&#039;re now seeing IS the laid-back Rochelle!&quot;. (You can&#039;t even imagine what I was like when I lived in New York City.)

I&#039;m am also hearing more and more that the lifestyle argument doesn&#039;t quite match the lifestyle costs. So, there needs to be a readjustment. On the one hand, Vancouver offers small city salaries, but requests big city living costs... hmmm!

I have spoken a great deal about Richard Florida&#039;s creative class and am hoping that we will soon have quantitative metrics and examples to point to. In the meantime, it is important to get people to think about this new class of professional and creative workers. I feel quite strongly that the regions that capitalize on their potential will, in fact, attract the leaders of tomorrow.

Thanks again for your great comments, and for continuing to be a pillar of the Vancouver community!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Raul,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your comment! I completely agree with all four points and it is a fine balance between work aspirations and lifestyle. Yes, I do work a lot, but as I&#8217;ve told several people recently, &#8220;What you&#8217;re now seeing IS the laid-back Rochelle!&#8221;. (You can&#8217;t even imagine what I was like when I lived in New York City.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m am also hearing more and more that the lifestyle argument doesn&#8217;t quite match the lifestyle costs. So, there needs to be a readjustment. On the one hand, Vancouver offers small city salaries, but requests big city living costs&#8230; hmmm!</p>
<p>I have spoken a great deal about Richard Florida&#8217;s creative class and am hoping that we will soon have quantitative metrics and examples to point to. In the meantime, it is important to get people to think about this new class of professional and creative workers. I feel quite strongly that the regions that capitalize on their potential will, in fact, attract the leaders of tomorrow.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your great comments, and for continuing to be a pillar of the Vancouver community!</p>
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